Ah, yes. Do you believe in predestination? Yeah I wonder that too about the changing of the mind. I hang out in mosques, Buddhist temples, and bars and show broken people the love of Jesus with no condemnation. If I am wrong on this issue, I am practicing a form of self-justification and teaching self-justification. I do. The whole account shows Jesus mercy for sinners, certainly not a model for punishing the sinner. The Scriptures are very clear that predestination exists, yet there are millions of believers who dont believe in it. The bible is our guide, our toolbox for seeking a closer walk with him. I couldnt take it any longer and chose to resign. But I dont wish on my worst enemy the pain that I, my family, Rob Bell, McLaren, or Jen Hatmaker have gone through. His Identity Ireland, 2022, 1h 34min, DCP, In Irish Gaelic and English with English subtitles. And Im frankly sick and tired of the broken bodies and lives as a result. I have. Jesus calls us to speak the Truth in LOVE (not in bloodthirsty fury). I hope Ive brought some clarity. If you want to stay in the fold, youd best be subordinately silent. Seriously. I know that I was matching hyperbole with hyperbole. The grace of God is a core gospel issue. LOCATION | The 04 Center 2701 S Lamar Blvd, Austin, TX 78704 . JENNIFER and Brandon Hatmaker are known for their work with Austin New Church. Question posed to Brett, a follower of Jesus that is gay: How do you Biblically justify living a homosexual lifestyle?, Because this question was submitted anonymously, I dont know what Christian tradition youre coming from. What so many do, is to attempt to label as a non-sin, something that is sin to move the fence. Look at this in context: Have you not read that He Who made them in the first place made them man and woman? You might as well say two people chatting over coffee should be held to a higher standard. People forget about Jesus chasing people with a whip. There wasnt any theological issues, no heresy. Great question KB. Updated August 18, 2020 It is a gospel issue. I think this whole article is buffoonery. Was the author referencing Jen as a wounded wolf? This is a sobering appeal and I pray that yes, this discourse does save life and redeem souls from death. You just dont arrive at any conclusion that a Biblical marriage covenant is anything other than what Jesus said it was a man and a woman. He ONLY allows it because, to quote Jesus, because of mankinds hardness of heart. Jesus condemns every expression of sex outside of marriage given what the word porneia means in both Biblical and non-Biblical sources. Good question. (Take a gander at the Sermon on the Mount if youre puzzled.) Youre right, Spencer, in my opinion. Showtimes. It was also the official position of ANC. I love the teachings and have met all of the offenders you have mentioned. This is a core gospel issue. Did FMCUSA release ANC because of their stance on gay marriage? He told the prostitute to sin no more. High profile people in high profile ministries invite both high profile praise and high profile criticism, with no accountability on the part of those meting out the criticism. Put me off the internet for awhile, Ill tell ya.). I dont know what people are saying about this woman and I dont have a clue as to who she is, I couldnt care any less than I do right now. It was also Jesus who affirmed what exactly a marriage covenant is when he said, from Genesis, that a man leaves his father and mother to cling to his wife and become one flesh. The reason Jesus doesnt talk about a same-sex marital covenant is because such a thing doesnt exist in the Bible. You just made me so happy. I had a woman tell me just today that she prayed and prayed and God did not take away her lesbianism. To me this is just one more instance of tolerance being a one way street. We should know by now what Gods word is. I dont know what it is that some of you have eaten but before commenting about a biblical issue perhaps it would serve you well to actually read the bible, brush up a little. I think most people on the other side do not want to intentionally be mean or attacking. Stop making excuses. Brett Trap has it going on. Furthermore, if your kids didnt believe that, would you be deeply disturbed or kick them out of the house? Healthy religion does not indoctrinate, but teaches people to think for themselves; Healthy religion invites us to be humble about what we believe and know; Healthy religion does not invest in negativity; it does not major on what it is against but rather on what it is for; Healthy beliefs stay in tune with reality, never filling in the gaps for what we do not know. Thanks, man. Only In Christ can brotherly love or sisterly trust take place. Do you keep the Sabbath holy? Re JH and accountability, its useful to look at the timeline of events that have led up to this. That is, as one man and one woman? And Ive heard Rob Bell speak movingly about the cruel and unusual punishment meted out by his evangelical brothers.. Our campus is more than just a building where we gather on Sundays. Those old theologians were big on grace and were vehement defenders of the idea that we acquire salvation by Gods grace alone, not by works (I agree with this). I appreciate your post on this. Yes and amen. Austin Miniatures Western Church Wild West Cowboys Conte Compatible Marx TSSD. Call off the attack dogs. Mike are you saying the nature and the tone of the criticisms are what you object to? Shes not a heretic. Cant we allow all of us to wrestle with our positions on all sorts of matters without feeling a need to correct? Lets focus on how the devil is using each and everyone of us in order to win good people over to his side. I lay no claim whatever to being more healthy or loving than anyone else quite the opposite. Find a way to live out the love of Christ. Are you who create these arguments so entrenched in your open orthodoxy unable to see the futility of a man-made salvation where there isnt such a thing as sin, and therefore no need for a Savior from sin? 20,804 Hoda Kotb's lengthy 'Today' show absence finally explained We are all sinners, in need of Christs help every day, and the church should be helping people OUT of sin, whatever that sin is (including but not only just homosexuality) by prayer and loving guidance. His standard is PERFECTION. http://bible.com/114/1co.5.10-13.nkjv. I personally think we should confront any teaching done by a well known Christian voice publically, since it is out there publically. is that documented somewhere? PLEASE let conservative evangelicals continue to build walls and isolate themselves from the rest of society. I just ran across your blog recently. The greatest commandments : love God with your whole self, love your neighbour as yourself. My salvation experience was not based on my status as a repentant sinner. There was ample time before their opinions were made public to meet with mentors and leaders to understand that what they say may not be well received. Jen follows hard after Jesus and she will be okay, no matter what lables are given and what articles are written. Is that a strict standard? How bad does it have to get? When, in your mind, must a leader be called out for heresy or false doctrine? Of course not! He poignantly ends the chapter with this true statement, p 263: the only truly biblical stance on homosexuality is limited to rejecting male homosexual sex with the same vehemence as, for example, clothing made from wool and linen mixtures, and to remaining open minded about everything else. Not to slam the person personally. Thank you for sharing your story and heartache. Yes, they need a public call out on it-otherwise it looks like the rest of the Christian world condones it and unfortunately there are a serious amount of people who are condoning it now and its just wrong just like condoning any other sin. 1,863 were here. It was based on knowing I had no hope and believing Jesus was empowered and pleased to offer me new life, hope and fellowship with God. There is a time and place for calling people out, but we have lost our heart when it comes to being good examples of how to resolve conflict. However, the scriptures are clear that homosexual practice is sin. 2:24. Only confirmation bias and not cultural context could bring you to a 1st century Jewish Rabbi quoting poetry from the Hebrew scripture meaning anything about monogamous, consensual, same-sex relationships. church and others. If you think the person is sinning, that is something to engage privately. Burnt toast actually. Praise God David that He never left your side and He indeed had a better place for you. Wilshire Baptist Church, a Dallas-area congregation, voted in 2016 to extend full membership to homosexually active people, including leadership ordination and marriage officiation. TP: Tray Pruitt, founding pastor and elder at ANC Not only is it a revisioned and repurposed music venue, it is also home to Austin New Church, a variety of 12-step programs & support groups, an award winning after school care program, and a progressive and inclusive Latino faith community. "Go and learn what this means: 'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.' For I have not come to call the righteous, but. Maybe pull your head out of your ass and realize that God would rather see people happy than have a tenth of the population relegated to loneliness and eventual rebellion against God. While people are free to express themselves many ways sexually, to do so outside of the marriage bed is against the message of Jesus. It has left me confused and weary. The process in Matthew 18 is very clearly directed at sins that are not already known to the church. Im not fucking with anyone, man. One is the leaven of the Pharisees, one is the leaven of the Herodians, both are an affront to the gospel. Its in alignment with the word of God because Paul said teachers have harsher judgment, and Jesus said those who teach people to break moral law will be called least in the kingdom. So I ask, is not healthy religion a figment of the imagination? Plain and simple. But we cant condone sin. Sin must be known as it is. At the very least she deserves to be treated with dignity and respect. Jesus spent most of his time hanging out with sinners, as should we. Anyone who writes a damning or imperious or condescending comment on their blog is only showing they have no such concern for the person. Sadly, this is what happens when religious communities become obsessed with building walls to exclude others. What are we so afraid of by allowing others opinions to be shared, acting as a source of topics for us all to wrestle with or further solidify our faith positions. Please dont send the attack dogs to those with whom you disagree, just as you request for the attack dogs not to be sent your way. In the Nicene Creed, Christians declare our belief in the four key attributes of the church when we say, [We believe] in one, holy, catholic. Biker. I listen, but I no longer debate their criticisms and small mindedness. Is one sin worse than another? One more question to you all who point fingers to those whose sin ( your word) is public, I want to ask- where is your contrition for shaming others? Many of my charismatic and Pentecostal friends speak in tongues (some call it a prayer language) and swear by it. I dont know the answer, but Jesus was public in his condemnation plenty of times too. . Mike, Im late to this article but I totally agree with you Sheri-its time we as TRUE Bible believing Christians start telling it like it is-and if these heretics-and that is what they are-go public-and any preacher is public really, whether online or preaching in their church-why then shouldnt we go public? In my email exchange with Jared I got to see the human side of how that feels. Questions: 2701 S Lamar Blvd Austin, TX 78704. I think we should go one layer deeper, where is the accountability of the Jens and the Robs? And he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. I know it is hard to wrap your mind around it, but they took a procedural item and made it into a essential doctrine. Sunday, May 28, 2022 Ascension Day. Yet, I am still saved. It is a pattern of sin emanating from our wicked hearts. I do not support condescension, intentional divisiveness or mean spirited attacks. Do you not judge those who are inside? Denying that homosexuality is a sin is a form of self-justification! As strongly as your convictions are explained here, please remember that many conservatives feel equally as strong regarding their heartfelt desire for biblical holiness. It will open us up to the new: while religion continues to be a profoundly important vehicle for personal and community identity it also embraces a humility borne of the awareness that our knowledge is partial we see through a glass only darkly. Next up: ad hominen attacks on anyone that considers LGBT lifestyles anathema to a faith-driven life. Would you kick him out of your church because he doesnt believe that part of the Bible? How do we go about that privately if the person does not respond to you? Have you ever held a rattlesnake or chugged a bottle of Clorox? I believe if someone publicly steps out of orthodoxy, it is fair to point out where you think they might be in error. Love. It is one of my favorite stories. What comes to mind for me in countering your view is Matthew 18:6-9. Reasoning is a heretical concept to them. But we cant go to the other extreme and do nothing about wayward leaders. Seems like the apostle Paul was referring to Austin New Church, when he dictated the words of Romans 16:17-18. What comes to mind is what God said when his people were sacrificing their children to Baal and Moloch: It never even entered my mind though He never gave the explicit command in the Law, Thou shall not sacrifice your children, we know its wrong. People often say things are facts based only on their opinions and interpretations but saying theyre absolute eternal truths? This IS great, Mike!! And how could the writer possibly individually approach all Christians with a message he feels is important? 5/15/22 ANC 5-15-2022 Sunday Live Service ANC 5-15-2022 Sunday Live Service 5/8/22 . Over the wall you go, Rob Bell. Thank you, and god bless each and Evey one of you. It all matters, but, just sayin But this, I humbly submit as just my opinion. A Loving response: Youre right this issue is important to me, but attacking somebody is never okay, and is not Christ-like. I know I will forever be grateful to God for the two years I had at that church and the people I met that changed my life for the better. Brian Austin Green Amid Split From Megan Fox Celebrates Father's Day With His Sons. If you write a blog to slam her, or design a demeaning meme, or post an essay-style comment on her blog youre not only being hurtful, but also completely ineffective at the very thing you claim to be doing. To understand Paul you *must* read Romans 1 and 2 as a single argument; after all, Romans 2 begins with Therefore. Two different categories. None of which makes any sense if the church already knows. If he listens to you, you have regained your brother. He gave one hard and fast litmus test: Love the Lord your God with all your heart and your neighbor as yourself. No, Jesus didnt specifically say armed robbery is wrong, but it harms your neighbor. He just hates sin. When any one says any sin is okay then they are wrong. Anyway. 6406 N I-35 Suite 3100 Austin, TX, 78752. Forgive. At the same time large swaths of the blogosphere blew up with the story, starting with Christian watchblogs and Christian feminist blogs and then spreading to atheist sites. For I have come to set a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and a mans enemies will be those of his own household. He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me. Frost presumed some sort of good will in the likes of Hatmakers condemners. If you have the right to ask me hard questions, dont I have the right to ask some of you?, Beautiful, Mike. After working with them through many meetings, lunches, and doing everything I could for over six months, they did exactly what you said in your article, they created their posses, spread rumors about me, my wife, and undermined the leadership of my entire staff. If your motivation really is loving correction, its my view that that can only happen fully and effectively in relationship. And it is wrong of this couple to teach this. Fri, Mar 10 . She knew this was going to be controversial and she chose to go forward because she felt strongly about it. Gal. They think the Old Testament God is not the same God of the New Testament or that God changed his mind and has mood swings. This should surprise no one, least of all the writer. For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside? November 1: BH affirms his JHs position on FB. Because its not showing right now. Its not as simple as that. Wednesday. To them, the Scriptures are clear on this issue, and they think the rest of us are in error by treating Sunday like a Sabbath. This is the Jesus I follow Have mercy, people. It was never worth the dramaplus, there would likely always be another mom pushing a little Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle around. Oh, THAT sin. Yet, the Bible is clear that it was. I also smoke pipes and cigars occasionally, I feel the same way with this as well. So there is no middle ground here. You either believe or you dont and you either repent and work away from sin or you dont. I agree with you, Mike. My misgiving with this article is whitewashing false teachers, since the subject is not about how to reach and love on homosexuals, but on how to deal with false teachers. Wait. Please let me clarify something I just wrote above: Yes, homosexuals as well as anyone else should be allowed-ENCOURAGED-to attend church for the reasons above-to repent and get help, whatever the sin is, not just homosexuality. Or are you making the point that its ok to be harsh because of Jesus example at the temple? Matthew 10:34-39 NKJV. BHs Facebook profile describes himself as Author. Jesus didnt say a lot of things. Hair style and food choice, andso many other abominations are overlooked. Speaking of salvation, how does baptism fit into that? And Jesus in Matthew 19:4-5? Somewhat ironic, and perhaps some of the fellow congregants should have been listening more closely. The best place to confront false teaching is on Sundays from the pulpit (like in Pauls letters which were meant to be read to a local church) and in personal discussion, where real Q & A dialogue can happen. What about speaking in tongues? In January of 2018, after coming under the umbrella of the United Methodist Church, we were gifted our beautiful new campus in the heart of the 04. Knowing how to respect and honour others is quickly fading from the memories of Western Christians, who live in small, disconnected bubbles of thought, belief, and practice and seem to feel ok with that. We all know deep down whats right and whats wrong. To learn more about the artists and discover more of their work:https://a ANC 12-23-22 Christmas Eve Eve Live Service, Ascension Day. And if they give you an unsatisfactory answer, do you disfellowship them or consider them apostate? Be and example yourself, I think you should read the Bible: Yet I certainly did not mean with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. Cracking a loud whip has always been the most effective means of controlling the movement of large groups of animals. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate. ANY sex outside of that is morally wrong in Gods eyes. Thanks, Mike. Sunday, May 28, 2022. What good is it?! To promote some other Christ is, yes, blasphemy, and it is false. Huge fan of the underdog. Is BH on staff at ANC in any paid or unpaid position? And I visit quite a few churches around the place. I do agree with Mike, Surely, if you think a person is guilty of teaching or promoting heresy your primary motivation would be to want to correct that person and restore them to orthodox faith. The building was originally Faith United Methodist Church since 1968 and in January of . I was beginning to thing that all Christians were self-appointed judges. Whether you're an old member or visiting for the first time we want you to know you that ALL are welcome at the Congregational Church of Austin. I do agree with your comment to Link above, and I most certainly believe that the place for confrontation is not social media or blog posts. She already said 2. Please read Chapter 33 of the esteemed Hebraist Joel Hoffmans The Bible Doesnt Say That, on Homosexuality. 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